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Eve Leung posted an update 8 years, 8 months ago
Just want to comment on this –
Confucius and the Computer by Manly P. HallAll I wish is that Manly P. Hall could read Chinese specially the old format of Chinese writing called 文言文, it is a form of traditional Chinese writing was still use during the Guo Ming government (Taiwan government) also known as 孫中山 / 孫逸仙 (The Chinese people call him the Father of Nation) Sun Yat-sen’s era. All the historical records was written in such a form, even if one can speak, read or write fluent Chinese doesn’t mean one could understand this form of writing, it require training and study in order to understand them.
The reason I say this because most of the westerner have very little material to learn Chinese culture, it largely base on what is available in English translation, which in my opinion very limited. Therefore, when people read some book about Chinese philosophy, often base on one writer opinion, and often the writer mix up the actual teaching of Confucianism and other Philosophical ideology of other teaching, aka Lao Zhi’s teaching often mistaken as Confucianism.
Why this is important? Because the actual Confucianism is what Dr. Farrell refers to as Culture and Social Marxism! I know it is a strong criticism and accusation. But once you understand the real Chinese culture on Philosophical ideology, you will more understand why I could made such strong opinion about it.
The Chinese Philosophical ideology has many group, we call 诸子百家 actually it just put every single one of the different ideology under one umbrella. 道家 (Taoism)、儒家 (Confucianism)、墨家 (Mozi)、法家 (can not find a better translation so – Enforce of Law)、名家 (Use method of debate to bring out the idea?).
I’m not going into the depth of each philosophical detail what these ideology about, if you are interest, you can go google it for a basic idea.
The most common ideologies are Taoism and Confucianism, and the rest such as Mozi, Enforce of Law, or Debate etc. was merged into these two major ideologies.
Why the split you may ask, the reason because the follower of these two ideologies dislike the other one, like Confucianism will not totally accept the ideology of Taoism and vise verse.
The Giza Forum (Legacy)
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I would recommend anyone with a minimum of language apt itude to study Chinese or at least have their kids study it. Too hard? Not at all: as my teachers used to say, “It is not difficult, but it is not easy”.
For whatever reason I can’t post my continue post LOL
but anyway, I will explain why I strongly oppose the major ideology of Confucianism –
It promote a set of complicated social behave, how people should eat, dress, move, walk, address to each other, heavily promote materialism! A king should have extravagant music and dance group preform music in a regular basis regardless if the King’s finance situation or the Kingdom’s situation, the King should also has lavish display of follower and servant during his outing, etc. etc. etc., his philosophical idea is NOT base on spirituality! I’m not saying this ideology is good for nothing, at lease it teach us be polite to each other.
However, if we look at Lao Zhi’s teaching, I’m saying Lao Zhi’s teaching, NOT Taoism, it teaching us how to be humble, always base on our natural stated of mind.
Example 1 – A house can’t be name as a house if it has no door or window (I can’t translate this in any better way).
The interpenetration of this – One can’t name something if this something’s component can not be observed.
Example 2 – Too much color will make people blind, too much flavor in the food will make one lose it is sense of taste.
Interpenetration – take moderation on everything, only take what we need.
Example 3 – A King should set a good example for his subject to follow, even without a set of law to regulate the country men, they will achieve a high moral standard.
Interpretation – We have one say in Chinese base on this idea, if the house’s upper main beam is not straight, don’t expect the lower beams to be straight, and don’t expect the house wouldn’t collapse .
Thank you Eve for sharing these Chinese philosophies and examples and your interpretations for us. Please share some more when you have time. Thank you.
Cara: I wish I can, but when it come to translation, the English version which I come across I do not feel satisfy with the translated meaning, this is why I dare not recommend them to you, just like this
1. The Way that can be followed is not the eternal Way
道可道、非常道。名可名、非常名, 無名天地之始, 有名萬物之母。故常無欲以觀其妙、常有欲以觀其徵。此兩者同出而異名。同謂之玄。玄之又玄、衆妙之門。
The Way that can be followed is not the eternal Way.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad things.
Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations.
These two are the same—
When they appear they are named differently.
This sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;
The door to all marvels.
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The first line of translation is totally OFF! I would rather use the term –
道可道、非常道。
One can name it the Path, but this is NOT a ordinary Path.
名可名、非常名。
One can name it, but it is NO ordinary name!
無名天地之始,
This without a form/shape and name is the beginning of all thing, (We can’t name it when it is non observable)
有名萬物之母。
naming it (one can consider as) Mother of all thing. (Or Think Dr. Farrell here, we can name it when it can be observed)
故常無欲以觀其妙、常有欲以觀其徵。
One can observe it is wonder/magic (really lack of better word for this) without desire, One (can only) observe it is characteristic with desire. (my own interpenetration – I will get it or see the truth of it without the intention of it or use it, but I will not get it if I desire for it or use it even if I can see it).
Think Harry Porter Philosopher’s Stone here, when Harry Porter got the stone in his pocket, because he has no desire to has it nor to use it, this is why he got it, Voldemort has desire for it and wanting to use it, this is why he didn’t get it.
此兩者同出而異名。
(my own interpretation) This is why two intention came from the same person will have different effect.
同謂之玄。玄之又玄、衆妙之門。
I don’t know how to translate this interpretation, but I’m totally not satisfy with the English translation.
See the problem now, my own understanding and my English is NOT even there. The funny thing is that my “spirit guide” (for lack of better term) know my level of understanding, so it will point me to movie or song’s lyric, graphic so I can understand it that way easier compare with normal scholarly way. LOL
Thank you Eve. I see the two different languages are quite different with some concepts having no words in English. Nevertheless, I find your explanations valuable and helpful and I feel I understand more from them. Thank you.
Confucius’s Early life – Lu can be seen in China’s northeast. Further information: Family tree of Confucius in the main line of descent It is generally thought that Confucius was born on September 28, 551 BC, in the district of Zou near present-day Qufu, China. The area was notionally controlled by the kings of Zhou but effectively independent under the local lords of Lu. His father Kong He or Shuliang He was an elderly commandant of the local Lu garrison.
In the talk, Manly P. Hall obviously mistaken Lao Tzu with Confucius, it was Lao Tzu who born of a poor unknown commoner’s family, and he was the one who does the self study, NOT Confucius.
Also because Confucius’s idea was too extravagant, all the kings turn down his own referral to be the King’s adviser, after the disappointment on his political career’s seeking, he return home and open a school of teaching, it was his student promote his idea until the whole China basically adapted Confucianism as their main political philosophy.
On the other hand, Lao Tzu has no student, no follower, when he try to leave China, it was the guard captain force him to write down his teaching, this how the Book of Daode jing (it means The Book of Path and Moral) came down to us. Later the a person’s name Zhang Daoling founded Taoism base on this the spiritual and moral inspiration of this book.
Eve, you explain the differencent philosophies very well. I now know which one I would rather study and follow, not Confucianism.
Eve, have you checked out Alan Watts? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iRRr3EvX_fo
Thank you for sharing that wonder clip, it is beautiful, I suppose we all experience from the total lost until we found it, which now I found it and I’m glad.
Please don’t take my word for it, do read directly from the texts to understand both Confucianism and The Book of Daode jing (The book of Path and Moral)
Linebarger, the unusual case of an American who became part of the Chinese Political Oligarchy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordwainer_Smith
If he is Sun Yat-sen’s godson, it wouldn’t be all to surprised, however, my guess is that he could only influence Sun Yat-sen’s government. After Chiang Kai-shek took over Sun Yat-sen’s government, he was doing some kind of Communist extermination, that is why the split of the Song Sisters, the middle Lady Song opposed Chiang Kai-shek’s policy, she went to former Soviet Union to study Communism, and joint the Chinese communist party after she return. One could wildly guess why Chiang Kai-shek see communist is such a threat, unlike his brother in law, Chiang Kai-shek is a very self serving oriented person, greed and power hungry, he should be much easier to persuaded into anti communism. Actually I did wondering why Sun Yat-sen keep picking those lousy military warlord to take over his government, first was Yuan Shikai, it turn out it was a bad choice, then he leave it to another bad choice, your post link me to my question! Thank you!